Do you think MMA fighters/ UFC destroy the beauty of martial arts?

It is good that people practice mixed martial arts wich is better than beeing limited by one type. But when you think of martial arts fighting, you think of 2 guys in their style uniform fighting swiftly, ( not exactly like the old movies but kinda like it) I mea arts like wing chun, karate, espacially kung fu etc. But then u watch an mma fight/ufc and you see 2 half naked guys just wearing shorts and pounding at each other like 2 beast in a bar fight. I repeat i am not hating, i am just saying that for mee seeing them makes me think as martial arts getting ugly, not appealing. It is good thing tho, just makes ma look ugly, like i dont even wanna watch it and learn it. and its not just the shorts, its also the ugly way they fight and the fact that they almost all look the same.

Do you think MMA fighters/ UFC destroy the beauty of martial arts?
I don't think that MMA fighters make MAs look bad at all. If anything, MMAs makes it look real and aplicable. It's beautiful in it's own right. And you're right, it doesn't look exactally like it does in movies, but that's what those are, movies. In movie the fights are coreographed like a musical coreographs a song and dance routine in the movie or on stage. The reason why in a MMA fight, the fighters are hald naked, is that it allows a more even playing field and less things for an opponent to grab on to. What do you think MA arts were originally? do you think the just got together to dance? I'm sure it would look just as pretty as a MMA fight with it's own respectable differences. It wouldn't be like your pretty movie dancing. That's why there are different schools that focus on different aspects of MAs. People have different tasts. you see to guys rolling around on the ground beating each other. I see a martial arsts trying to obtain a mount by bypassing his opponents guard and obtain a dominant possition. At the same time, trying not to allow the guy on the bottom sweep him and take his possition on top. You see a couple guys on the ground holding hands. I see a fighter trying for an armbar or a kumorah while the other is trying to counter and get a rear nake choke. You see to guys hgging on the fence. I see 2 martail artist in the clinch trying for a take down while giving knee and elbow strikes to eachother. Just like point fighting, just like in the movies, etc there is an art to fighting and it's just as beautiful as any other application of martail arts. Just like watching Chuck Liddell give a left to Rampages ribs while Rampage counters with a heavy right to Chuck's left jaw. I'm sorry it happend to Chuck, but to me....that was beautiful.
Reply:Not really.





I view MMA fighters and UFC as something entirely different and seperate from traditional martial arts.
Reply:I understand your point, but it is more realistic then point fighting.
Reply:To be quite honest - yes. When watching UFC and MMA fights, that's what they look like, fights. There is no "style" to speak of. I'd rather watch karate vs. tkd, or judo, or whatever, like UFC was in the beginning.
Reply:I do not think it destroys the beauty, I think it actually makes you appeciate different styles and beauty involved in other martial arts. I understand your point but I just feel like once you watch the UFC and then you watch someone doing karate you appreciate the beauty more because you can see how complex, wide ranging and diverse martial arts really are and what its all about. I think someone who truly cares about martial arts will look at both and see beauty in all aspects of ma. I love to watch MMA, I am a huge fan and watch as much as possible but I also get great pleasure out of watching traditional martial arts in practice as well, their is beauty in all aspects of the game.
Reply:Well my friend, you will get varied opinions about all this, but here is what it comes down to.





Aside from a few Martial Arts (mainly forms of Shaolin Kung Fu), Martial Arts weren't meant for beauty or their aesthetic value. They were meant for fighting.





Most of the outfits you associate Martial Arts with came as a tradition (the Gi, as originally based off the Kimono) or traditional dress at the time of the Art's foundation.





Many forms of Kung Fu were meant as a means towards spiritual enlightenment, focus, effeciency of motion and breath, and tuning your body for oneness. Even those were not meant to be beautiful, but were meant to draw in and center yourself while disciplining yourself mentally, spiritually, and physically.





While maintaining the tradition of these arts is something I think needs to occur. (Someone needs to maintain this culture, as it was wonderous and fascinating) I again feel the need to stress that Martial Arts were meant for fighting. Which in itself is not beautiful.





Sadly, when people think of Martial Arts fighting (especially outsiders) they think of the movies. Choreographed movements that are not only ineffecient but done so to look better. (Honestly, martial arts fight choreography is an artform in itself).





Martial Arts were based in violence, ugly, brutal violence. The ugly way you think of MMA fighters, is good in some ways. Because that is what fighting is, damn ugly.





Most athletes in some sense look the same, (i.e. in shape).





Fighting is ugly.





I think that is something you are seeing, Martial Arts aren't meant for aesthetics, it just so happens many of the traditional Martial Arts appear that way. The Katas and Forms and the like. (Keep in mind, Kata and Forms are not meant for fighting, they are meant to prepare and condition your body for those movements in a fight) So yes, kicking the air looks beautiful as someone does it with grace and balance. Kicking someone in the head usually isn't quite a pretty.





As I said, I don't think the culture of these traditional martial arts should be lost. (Much the same as there are still katas, and even JJ based Katas in Judo, that one learns at the highest levels). However effectiveness in combat requires ugly brutality, and blood, sweat, and tears. Martial Arts are meant to be combat effective, not aesthetic.





I think there are traditional schools that are in the strictest sense traditional (i.e. hard sparring, hard body conditioning, actually fighting).





Then there are traditional schools that embrace a different side of what they feel is traditional, and adhere to the more friendly aesthetically pleasing, kid friendly, money making way. And try to further sell the mysticism sometimes associated with martial arts.





The public perception, and even the perception of many Martial Artists who embraced this mentality of Asianophile mystic type of tradition is that Martial Arts are the key to unlocking some great inner energy and power. That it's point is in betterment of yourself and while they will claim that they are even more effective than professional fighter in terms of street combat, due to their spiritual oneness and discipline, they are in fact, incredibly ineffective due to absolutely no experience in adrenaline based situations or actual combat.





The old masters fought people constantly, including having to fight for their lives many times. That was their secret to effectiveness, their movements and training methods were tremendous helps (katas, forms, conditioning) but it was their constant experience in fighting that truly made them deadly and respected, and garnered them disciples.





True Martial Arts fighting (look at Wing Chun master Emin Bozetep taking on William Cheung. (videos of it all over youtube) two self proclaimed true Wing Chun masters. Watch what it actually looks like.





Look at the early UFC and what it actually looked like when Martial Arts masters took on each other. There have been plenty of no holds mixed martial arts (Open) tournaments going on way before then. Again it looked more like kickboxing and wrestling then what you think Martial Arts based fighting would look like.





Unfortunately the perception of Martial Arts fighting comes from Choreography, and old point fighting Karate tournaments. Actual fighting even between two Martial Arts masters looks much differently, (and more often like an untrained brawl).





I think there is something to be said about the beauty and aesthetic aspect to many traditional Martial Arts, and I am glad that some embrace that and keep that part of the culture alive. Some places are great and blending both, the traditional hard training, hard sparring, actual combat oriented, combined with forms, traditions, etc.





I think MMA is the closest embodiement to what Martial Arts actually used to be. (aside from uniform) Many Martial Arts were based on fighting with weapons, or in armor, etc. The shorts in MMA are just a means of advantage for the fighters against each other.





Older tournaments simply wore the garb of the day. Though some did indeed feature less uniforms than the others. (The Olympics in ancient time were done in the nude)





So in my opinion the beauty (aesthetic, ineffective) aspect of Martial Arts is not diminished as that caters to a different ideology, one of cultural preservation, whereas the UFC/MMA caters to unarmed combat effectiveness.





It is infact more complex and strategic than most single Martial Arts.





It all depends on your definition of Martial Arts and what they mean. To some it is the preservation of a culture, spiritual enlightenment, and adhering to certain principles of tradition. To others Martial Arts is about bettering yourself and your ability to fight, and through that you gain enlightenment of self, as well as discipline and confidence.





I think both sides have their pluses and minuses, and neither really diminish each other. But perhaps shows each side where they are lacking.





MMA/UFC types shows many other arts what they are lacking combat wise.





Traditional MA shows what the UFC/MMA types are lacking in Spiritually, Centered, and Calmness side.





Some people are lucky enough to have both.





*edit* Sorry I know I already wrote a book. Yupagee will probably get best answer for agreeing with you, but he is a traditionalist. Disregard below, as it is strictly for Yupagee's answer.





There is a hundred times more discipline and respect in the average MMA fighter than there is in 90 percent of traditional Martial Artists in America.





These guys wake up at the crack of dawn, and train until after dark. The eat a regimented diet, live a regimented lifestyle. And aside from a few pros, do it for very little money. They run, lift weights, work on technique, work on technique some more, work with a variety of disciplines and coaches. (Almost all of them are cross training with a boxing coach, a muay thai coach, a brazilian jujitsu coach, etc) They are cramming in two or three times the discipline, not to mention the respect they have for each other and coaches.





Can't tell you how many power hungry disrespectful 14 year old black belts I have seen in Traditional Arts. Or how many damn disrespectful punk kids I have seen in tournaments. For that matter, I have seen and see in great abundance here in Yahoo answers, 30 and 40 year old black belt traditional Martial Artists that are disrespectful to any other art than their own. Or any art that actually engages in combat.





Saying MMA lacks discipline or respect is ignorant of the fighters, the sport, and what it actually encompasses. You train one art, 3 days a week. They train 3 or 4 arts six or seven times a week. They bow to many Senseis, and treat each other with respect. Not to mention the average McDojo traditional teacher probably makes more than 80 percent of the MMA fighters. Aside from a few big names, most pull in maybe 20 grand from fighting,(10 grand for a UFC pro undercard fight, and get to do that maybe twice a year) and they have to beg for sponsorship.





One thing a MMA fighter does have in truckloads in discipline and respect. Something I see lacking in many traditional schools full of fat white "Masters" who insist on being called Sensei, Sempai, or Master even outside of the dojo. Who demand respect but do little to earn it.





I always respect your opinion Yupagee, but saying they lack discipline and respect is pretty damn ignorant.
Reply:Beauty, if you mean traditional bs that dosen't work. IF that is how you define beauty then yes.


MMA has show all the "traditional" martial artist how ineffective there styles are in real combat. That upsets most and they defend it by crying about how mma isn't a martial art or how it lacks spiritualness or what ever. In reality it has show you that tradition is weak and worthless in the streets, plain and simple.
Reply:I agree 110%. MMA lacks the discipline %26amp; respect of any true Martial Art.
Reply:No it just points out weaknesses of differnet martial arts.

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